Crusader Kings III

Crusader Kings III

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Winning Unwinnable Wars (UPDATED for Royal Court)
By KaptainKhaos42
Have your vassals been feeling a bit unloved lately? Does your neighbor decide it's finally time to put you in your place? What about both? Detailed in this guide is a strategy on how to survive those unfortunate instances where you're outnumbered 2:1, or 3:1, or 4:1... (it's happened okay). The more outnumbered you are, you more screwed you are, but if you want a chance at surviving, I'll give you one.
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Royal Court UPDATES
The Royal Court DLC and the free update do not really change the core mechanics of warfare. So the guide below still applies to the newest version.

HOWEVER, I can not help but point out that in revamping the culture system, they added two traditions which are absurdly powerful considering the strategies in this guide.




Both of these Traditions decrease the requirement for white peace acceptance. While you needed 30 before, you would only need 10/20 now (depending if you have 1 or both). This is insane. If you don't understand why, read the guide.
TL;DR
In a war you can't win? Use the immense power of siege men at arms to go full blitzkrieg mode and get to 30% war score (or less with the traditions above) before the enemy spanks you. Offer a White Peace and watch as the AI is forced to end a war they were seconds from winning. EASY.
Say Hello to White Peace
We all know that the AI always makes 100% logical decisions. Although this can often be frustrating (those brain dead allies), you are occasionally allowed the opportunity to laugh manically at the AI's stupidity. This is one of them.

When fighting a war, we already know about "Surrender" and "Enforce demands," but the ignored step-child sandwiched between is less talked about. Yes, I'm referring to "White Peace".



White Peace? But that's the same as losing you say. Well yes, but only for offensive wars. Defensive wars are a different story. White peace is like winning, but only with 30% war score. The catch? You'll miss out on some bonus money/prestige. Nice, but I care more about my survival.

The plan is simple. Rush to 30% war score before the enemy spanks you and press that clutch button seconds before your armies are disintegrated. EASY. But how you ask?


Well well well...
Factions
When I see my life flashing before my eyes, questioning my life decisions, it's usually because my vassals are throwing a tantrum. It doesn't help that I'm also screaming at the sudden disappearance of half my levies. Treason I say, TREASON! Anyway, the good news is that each vassals' army starts off separate from each other.




This is when I raise two separate armies. The main force will try to weaken (or optimally stack wipe) every smaller force it sees. If you're only outnumbered 2:1 or less, this is sometimes enough to even the odds and allow you to come out on top. At the very least, this will give you some small satisfaction and a little precious war score.

The second force will be as small as possible while still being able to siege (Examine the surrounding garrisons and and account for attrition) This little rat will siege the enemy and is what will actually get you to 30% war score. Use your main force to distract the enemy for as long as possible, but avoid any heroic suicide. Defeats lower war score.

This is when I raise two separate armies. The main force will try to weaken (or optimally stack wipe) every smaller force it sees. If you're only outnumbered 2:1 or less, this is sometimes enough to even the odds and allow you to come out on top. At the very least, this will give you some small satisfaction and a little precious war score.

The second force will be as small as possible while still being able to siege (Examine the surrounding garrisons and and account for attrition) This little rat will siege the enemy and is what will actually get you to 30% war score. Use your main force to distract the enemy for as long as possible, but avoid any heroic suicide. Defeats lower war score.

A little note on Siege Weapons
Siege Weapons seem to be the most underrated men at arms. Seriously. Not only do they cost almost zero unraised maintenance and allow you to finish your sieges faster, but they can be used for many a cheeky strategy (like this one).



Let me make this clear, this strategy is virtually impossible without siege weapons. You simply can't get war score fast enough. I like to have at least 2 full regiments of the most modern siege MAA at all times. I can not stress this enough, More siege weapons = Higher chance of success.

Little Tip: When I have three or more regiments and men to spare, I like to have multiple siege armies working at the same time. It's more efficient.
Foreign Invaders
Okay, I put some factions in their place, but now the Byzantines want a piece of me. What now?

Glad you asked. The process is basically the same, just remember that the enemy will be more consolidated. In this case, you'll want to send your main force in between the main enemy and their allies. Don't let them join forces, EASY.



Another thing, try not to let the enemy sneak up on your siege army. If they get wiped, you're kind of toast.



But speaking of sieging... I would recommend trying to siege the enemy capital if possible. If you manage to capture the enemy leader/heir, GG. Do note that you won't always capture important people. Not guaranteed, but worth a shot.

See this guide for more on sacking the enemy capital:
https://cs2bus.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2235874887
War Priority
Is fighting one unwinnable war not enough? What about five?



It might come as a surprise that the more defensive wars you have at once, the more dead inside you become... But seriously, the AI just loves to pile on multiple wars at the same time. Faced with a situation this bad, you only really have two options.

Die honorably as you desperately make a last stand against the hordes of enemies. Or...

Decide which pound of flesh is the least important. Some wars are more important than others. Generally, Peasant Rabble is the least important, followed by Liberty wars. More serious are Independence factions and claimants. Both brutal but I find claimants worse.



When it comes to foreign invasion, the importance of the war depends on how much land is being conquered. If surrendering means only losing one unimportant county, surrender. But if surrendering means losing a kingdom... yikes.

Organize your wars in terms of importance, and make judgments accordingly. Take on only as much as you can handle. It won't be pretty.
Kiting: A sign of True Desperation
Has all else failed? Has the AI slapped you down, battle after battle? Are you losing hope and asking yourself, Is this the end? Yes, yes it is.

But if in spite of that, you still want to try one last thing before hurling your PC out the window, then who am I to judge.

Say hello to kiting, a very unreliable strategy that will likely leave you with nothing but wasted time.

The plan is simple. Have one army go around in circles baiting the enemy to chasing it down instead of sieging. Your other army desperately sieges enemy territory, hoping that it can finish before being sent to oblivion. Sounds reasonable right?

First things first, kiting like this requires an intense amount of micromanagement. To pull this off you'll need to keep the enemy from deciding to engage your siege army, while also keeping the baiting army from being trapped.



Kiting is a delicate dance that only takes one moment to crumble down around you. There is little margin for error and messing up will send you back to the drawing board. I have honestly only kited successfully once. Try this at your own peril.
Final Notes and How to Avoid This
It is because of this strategy that my memory is filled with tense encounters and tales of winning against all odds. Even in wars where such drastic measures aren't necessary, I have found this to be a good way of saving a lot of money I would have spent on mercenaries. A good way to add some excitement to a playthrough, I enjoy winning unwinnable wars.

But if you're lame, and don't want to deal with wars where you are desperately outnumbered, then I have good news for you. The answer is simple.

I know that many of us (myself included) complain about trash ally AI, but honestly, its usually alright. If you set yourself up with several (and I mean at least three) powerful allies and actually help them with that war they've had for the past 9 years, you should have help available when you need it. Its that simple.

But I always keep some mercenary reserves in case I need them. Better safe than sorry.
15 Comments
Panda BaoBao PL 14 Aug, 2022 @ 4:11am 
I invite you to my new ultimate guide about millitary
https://cs2bus.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2846475771
🝠Ϗ🜁🜔ϯїς🜸🜸 6 May, 2022 @ 1:47pm 
I was in a rough spot after my emperor drank some bad koolaid leaving the empire to his 18 year old son.
Right away I get three wardecs: A third of the empire wants Independence, a powerful throne claimant is backed by another third, and the Peasants decided to revolt also.

My available troops went from 16,000 to about 3,900 in an instant and I still came out ahead. Want to know what I did?

I SURRENDERED TO THE CLAIMANT. This made BOTH wars HIS problem! My troops were sent home to rest while I watched the new Emperor clean up the peasants and struggle to subjugate the rebels.

Meanwhile, I'm putting all my focus on Diplomacy to unlock "Claim Throne of Your Liege".

The Empire stays united but people really hate the new guy after he wins the Independence war. So in a few years I claim his throne, and he doesn't even argue and just says "OK be the emperor I don't even care anymore."
toutvabien 28 Jan, 2022 @ 8:43am 
Cool points. I don't kite a lot but my main goal to end a war is generally hunting down lesser foes and most importantly capturing the ruler or heir etc. before they went all the way to the summit point for AI where they will start to siege down your realm.

If nothing works murdering schemes do and they are the second or even third option for a devastated ruler to save their country. White peaces are important as you said, especially facing multiple threads at once. Overall a nice conclusion I must say, thanks :crusader_helmet:
SonicTheWarthog 22 Jan, 2022 @ 9:17am 
you are assuming the AI is just as clever as the player which it is not.
SonicTheWarthog 22 Jan, 2022 @ 9:16am 
Please give your brother a kingdom and make him independent, then watch the idiot lose everything. You do realize how trash the AI is in this game right? If you know how to bait armies or even you can sacrifice some troops to lose battles to basically do whatever you can to get the AI to abort sieges. I have won losing wars by just doing everything i can to not get to -100%. Time is very much against the AI in this game. The AI can face factions of their own, they can get attacked by another enemy. If you are outnumbered and heading for a loss, making the war go on as long as possible is your best chance of turning things around.
KaptainKhaos42  [author] 22 Jan, 2022 @ 5:01am 
And the longer a war goes on, the more likely you will fuck up.
SonicTheWarthog 19 Jan, 2022 @ 5:52pm 
the longer a war goes on for the more likely the AI will fuck up
KaptainKhaos42  [author] 25 Nov, 2021 @ 3:16pm 
Oh yeah, If you have a commander with organizer trait I would absolutely use them. It's not like you need one to pull off kiting, but it helps compensate for some human error.
Boi 25 Nov, 2021 @ 2:40pm 
When in kiting mode, it probably also helps to assign a commander with the movement speed commander trait, right? Cool guide! Gonna try these tips.
Jackochainsaw 6 Sep, 2021 @ 5:29am 
I tend to keep enough gold stuffed away for dangerous situations. I'd say keep a minimum of 1,000, especially when your monarch is 60+ years of age. There are two scenarios where gold can be a lifeline. So if you are facing a dire war, mercenaries might be just enough to help (though depending on the size of the enemy this will vary). The other scenario is where you have just changed from your dead King/Emperor (Queen/Empress) to the heir. Following the Diplomacy tree is a saviour. Diplomat tree > Thoughtful > Defensive negotiations & August tree > Benevolent intent. Sway and pay those vassals. Pay your realm priest handsomely and get those levies. Ultimogeniture can be great to switch to but, be advised that there is a high chance that you might have such a young heir, that they cannot sway, hold feasts or go on hunts until they are 16. I learned this the hard way with a 2 year old Empress. Fail more, learn more!